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My power level sheet
Topic Started: Nov 5 2011, 03:42 PM (3,842 Views)
Mihawk
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 6 2011, 02:19 AM
"Human" is used in the original, and "human" is also used in Viz, so they both contradict each other then.

I don't see why Viz would be taken over a direct translation though. If the translation is "human", then it's "human". The problem's not the translator, but the person who wrote it then.
What chapter? I can't find it. I'm looking at 232.

I'd rather use the Viz because it's researched and translated by a team of people. Direct translation shouldn't hold more weight than researched direct translation.

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illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 02:23 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 6 2011, 02:19 AM
"Human" is used in the original, and "human" is also used in Viz, so they both contradict each other then.

I don't see why Viz would be taken over a direct translation though. If the translation is "human", then it's "human". The problem's not the translator, but the person who wrote it then.
What chapter? I can't find it. I'm looking at 232.

I'd rather use the Viz because it's researched and translated by a team of people. Direct translation shouldn't hold more weight than researched direct translation.
Viz changes things for an American audience though, so it's not actually a direct translation. It even says in the volumes that it's an "adaptation".

And I'm not sure, but I know Ginyu used human.
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 6 2011, 02:26 AM.
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Mihawk
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 6 2011, 02:26 AM
illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 02:23 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 6 2011, 02:19 AM
"Human" is used in the original, and "human" is also used in Viz, so they both contradict each other then.

I don't see why Viz would be taken over a direct translation though. If the translation is "human", then it's "human". The problem's not the translator, but the person who wrote it then.
What chapter? I can't find it. I'm looking at 232.

I'd rather use the Viz because it's researched and translated by a team of people. Direct translation shouldn't hold more weight than researched direct translation.
Viz changes things for an American audience though, so it's not actually a direct translation. It even says in the volumes that it's an "adaptation".

And I'm not sure, but I know Ginyu used human.
Exactly my point. When doing direct translations, then they won't make the exact same sense to Americans/native English speakers. That's the reason I couldn't do all my language homework using Google Translate :p

Sometimes, paragraphs and even sentences need to be rewritten because many words are not directly able to be translated and have the same meaning. Herms I'm guessing just did a sentence by sentence translation (or word by word)

That's probably the discrepancy between direct translation that needs to re-adapted for it to make sense to us. Because right now, this the quote is too horrendous. I don't see AT or Vegeta making the mistake of calling Vegeta a human, especially in the saiyan saga (even better.. in the same sentence that he had it right once).

Here is what I found in the "Viz"

Quote:
 
A Saiyan is most powerful it's ape form... A Saiyan... that has it's tail!

Note: I didn't add the bold, it was all Viz (I hope it's Viz anyway lol).
Edited by Mihawk, Nov 6 2011, 02:36 AM.

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Cocoman
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illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 02:15 AM
Personally I would go with the Viz over anything else. So while I don't have anything against your preference for Herms or whatever, if his translation contradicts itself I recommend that you switch over the official translation for the few discrepancies.
Argh I'm pretty sure Herms himself lives in Japan for Christ's sake.

As KP said his translation is a DIRECT translation while the Viz is just Americanised (ie cutting out and switching around the lines which sound awkward when spoken out loud in English).


I repeat, and this IS a fact, in the Dragonball universe human =/= a specific race. Whether it is Alien or what not, they could still be human.
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Cocoman
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illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 02:34 AM

Here is what I found in the "Viz"

Quote:
 
A Saiyan is most powerful it's ape form... A Saiyan... that has it's tail!

Note: I didn't add the bold, it was all Viz (I hope it's Viz anyway lol).
ONCE AGAIN, that is just plain wrong/////////

Herms' translations>>>Viz.

Also, here's a present to show you that Herms' translations are near perfect;


(0:10~)

It appears as if NamcoBandai's translation agrees with Herms lol.
Edited by Cocoman, Nov 6 2011, 02:54 AM.
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Mihawk
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Well as you can see just his translation makes sense to him since he's from there. To us, the translation is hogwash. So yes, it needs to be re-adapted so we can understand it since translation isn't that simple. It needs to be done properly so a target audience can understand the meaning. Because as you can see, native English speakers can only see this as a mistake:

Quote:
 

“Wanna hear something good?... When a Saiyan becomes an Oozaru, their battle power becomes 10 times what it is as a human!!!!"


While I don't have anything against "Herms" personally, his direct unadapted translation isn't making sense. Hence why at times the official adapted version makes more sense since the researchers at Viz first understand the entire the page and then take into consideration how a native English audience may perceive it wrong if it's translated word by word and then rewritten to make sense for us. It's pretty much the same thing that goes on with Google translate and why it won't work for your language homework :p
Edited by Mihawk, Nov 6 2011, 02:54 AM.

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Cocoman
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illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 02:54 AM
Well as you can see just his translation makes sense to him since he's from there. To us, the translation is hogwash. So yes, it needs to be re-adapted so we can understand it since translation isn't that simple. It needs to be done properly so a target audience can understand the meaning. Because as you can see, native English speakers can only see this as a mistake:

Quote:
 

“Wanna hear something good?... When a Saiyan becomes an Oozaru, their battle power becomes 10 times what it is as a human!!!!"


While I don't have anything against "Herms" personally, his direct unadapted translation isn't making sense. Hence why at times the official adapted version makes more sense since the researchers at Viz first understand the entire the page and then take into consideration how a native English audience may perceive it wrong if it's translated word by word and then rewritten to make sense for us. It's pretty much the same thing that goes on with Google translate and why it won't work for you language homework :p
Look at my edit.


Come at me bro!
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Mihawk
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Look I'll say it again, I don't have a problem with Herms and how he's the best translator on Earth. The fact of the matter is that he's using direct translation not putting aside hours for each paragraph, page, and chapter to rewrite it for a native English audience to perceive it the way the author intended. If I'm right (correct me if I'm wrong) he checks sentences and their context and then directly translates the words without rewriting it for a native English audience since direct translation doesn't always work.

While it's unfair to say that he's always doing that, it can be inferred that there was a Japenese to English discrepancy in the human/earthling situation as long as Viz doesn't make the same mistake (since Viz is rewriting the direct translation to make it as the author intended). Going under the assumption that Viz doesn't make the same mistake, I stand by my point unless it's proven that they do in fact use human interchangeably. If they do the same, then it's obvious that human and alien are interchangeable.


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Cocoman
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illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 03:05 AM
since Viz is rewriting the direct translation to make it as the author intended

Do you mean that Viz are rewriting it to what AT intended? If so I have a major problem with that. Whatever it says in Japanese it should say the same in English.

That is just one example of Viz's incompetence. Leaving out something as basic as Oozaru = 10x normal power is unacceptable really. There is simply no reason for that.

The fact of the matter is the Japanese version mentions Earthlings and humans as different beings. I really don't know why I need to explain this to you so much.
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Mihawk
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Cocoman
Nov 6 2011, 03:14 AM
illstand1
Nov 6 2011, 03:05 AM
since Viz is rewriting the direct translation to make it as the author intended

Do you mean that Viz are rewriting it to what AT intended? If so I have a major problem with that. Whatever it says in Japanese it should say the same in English.

That is just one example of Viz's incompetence. Leaving out something as basic as Oozaru = 10x normal power is unacceptable really. There is simply no reason for that.

The fact of the matter is the Japanese version mentions Earthlings and humans as different beings. I really don't know why I need to explain this to you so much.
@coco Yea I completely understand what you're saying and it's a good point until you learn more about language and interchangeability. Studying language for a while, I understand that their could easily be discrepancy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untranslatability#Adaptation

Quote:
 
An adaptation, also known as a free translation, is a procedure whereby the translator replaces a term with cultural connotations, where those connotations are restricted to readers of the original language text, with a term with corresponding cultural connotations that would be familiar to readers of the translated text.


Quote:
 
Whatever it says in Japanese it should say the same in English.

That's not true:

Quote:
 
Quite often, a text or utterance that is considered to be "untranslatable" is actually a lacuna, or lexical gap. That is, there is no one-to-one equivalence between the word, expression or turn of phrase in the source language and another word, expression or turn of phrase in the target language. A translator can, however, resort to a number of translation procedures to compensate for this.


Inconsistency in language is a perfect example of when you should go back to a naturalized version of text. Direct translation can be better in some cases (as you stated they'll completely omit extremely important detail), but when obvious inconstancy in sentences comes up then an adaptation is what you're looking for.
Edited by Mihawk, Nov 6 2011, 03:39 AM.

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What I don't get is how "direct translation" isn't the most authoritative translation. I mean, how much better can you get than a direct translation? That IS how the author wanted things to be said/portrayed. If the original Japanese said "He's stronger than all of us!" but the English adaptation said "He's a monster!", there can be a lot of different interpretations, even though the original is a flat statement and not vague.

There's an interview with a Viz translator somewhere on Daizex where she explained how they did things, but I can't find it right now. I'll ask and come back with it.
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Mihawk
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 6 2011, 03:43 AM
What I don't get is how "direct translation" isn't the most authoritative translation. I mean, how much better can you get than a direct translation? That IS how the author wanted things to be said/portrayed. If the original Japanese said "He's stronger than all of us!" but the English adaptation said "He's a monster!", there can be a lot of different interpretations, even though the original is a flat statement and not vague.

There's an interview with a Viz translator somewhere on Daizex where she explained how they did things, but I can't find it right now. I'll ask and come back with it.
It completely depends on the situation.
Here read the entire wikipedia page to see what I mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untranslatability

Take some more time on "adaptation". I've taken Spanish for 5 years and I know that direct translations aren't always the best thing. While in some cases or even most cases directly translating text can be better, in many it will cause inconsistency. Here let me show you an example from the wikipedia page.

Quote:
 
For example, in the Belgian comic book The Adventures of Tintin, Tintin's trusty canine sidekick Milou is translated as Snowy in English, Bobbie in Dutch, Kuttus in Bengali, and Struppi in German; likewise the detectives Dupont and Dupond become Thomson and Thompson in English, Jansen and Janssen in Dutch, Jonson and Ronson in Bengali, Schultze and Schulze in German, Hernández and Fernández in Spanish, 杜本 and 杜朋 (Dùběn and Dùpéng) in Chinese, Fomichoff and Fomichoff in Russian and Skafti and Skapti in Icelandic.


Those are adapted translations. To us, human and alien being interchangeable is hogwash. Maybe it makes more sense in a different country in another language.

http://www.interproinc.com/articles.asp?id=0303

Herms would be more along the lines of literal translation (but uses context I'm guessing and hoping). Viz (if it's just an adaptation the way I'm seeing it - researched etc) would be combination of all the techniques for final product. While his is better in many cases, when inconsistency occurs the obvious choice is the naturalized version. So I take back when I say about Viz - it's not a "better" version - that's just my own choice and opinion for reading. In argument, Viz should only be used when inconsistency in content occurs since the direct translation is prone to such errors for the same reason.
Edited by Mihawk, Nov 6 2011, 04:19 AM.

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NavonWise
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I have to agree a bit, some Spanish words just don't go well translating in English.
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